Sept. 29, 2025

The Sound of Gold with guest Gregg Goodhart

The Sound of Gold with guest Gregg Goodhart

An interview with music coach Gregg Goodhart. Gregg shares with us his indepth research on how the brain learns to recall reading music and playing music back, smoother. The Sound of Gold is broadcast live Mondays at 4PM ET / 1PM PT on K4HD Radio -...

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Season 1

An interview with music coach Gregg Goodhart.
Gregg shares with us his indepth research on how the brain learns to recall reading music and playing music back, smoother.

The Sound of Gold is broadcast live Mondays at 4PM ET / 1PM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). The Sound of Gold TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

The Sound of Gold Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-sound-of-gold--6696013/support.

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek

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the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any

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suggested ideas.

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Hi, Welcome to the Sound of Gold. If you've been

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here before, welcome back. If you're new, welcome. Basically, my

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whole idea for doing this show is to focus on music, musicians,

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music teachers, and music schools, as well as various music

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programs in our school system. And I'm a big advocate

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for keeping music alive, keeping musicians alive. And there's so

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much that.

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Goes into playing an instrument.

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There's so much. Sorry, I have a cat here who's

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who's wanting to get all the attention, So she's gonna

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have to share my attention today.

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This is Callie.

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So with that being said, with music, there's just so

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much to dive into. There's so much to cover, and

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if you're a musician, you get it. It's a never

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ending journey. It's a never ending, like you never get

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to a point where like, Okay, that's it, I know,

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I know what I need to know and move on.

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It's just for your forever growing.

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And that's the beauty of being a musician is that

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there's never too.

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Much to learn.

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And the beauty of being a musician amongst musicians is

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that we get to help each other and learn from

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each other as well.

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Over the years.

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I'm a music teacher, I teach piano. I'm a piano

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performer as well. I still, even though I'm a teacher

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and a performer, I still take lessons occasionally, and I

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still follow other teachers that inspire me. One of those

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teachers is Greg Goodheart, and he's otherwise known as the

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Learning Coach.

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He does a lot of online classes and his research

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has been such an inspiration to me that I've let

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my students know about him as well, and I even

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take classes from him and love.

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To learn from him.

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And I've love to welcome him today to our show.

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Greg Goodheart, are you with us?

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Yes, you are right here.

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Hi, Lisa, Hi, Thank you so.

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Much for making us a part of your day today.

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Thank you for having me. I really really enjoy being here.

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So things you.

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Said got me thinking already, but go ahead, So I have.

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To I have to say, and I always start my

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show off with just well, I'm an honest, transparent person

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just because it's easier to live that way. But to

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say up front, I've been following you for years, so

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I always feel like I know you because I follow

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what you I follow your webinars, I follow your what

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you have on YouTube, I follow you on musicality, you

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your practice classes. I've had one of my students, I Lean,

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has been working with you as well. And I just

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I am a huge advocate for learning, and I feel

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like for me personally, I can never learn enough, and

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you just give me that vibe that you are so

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into like learning and learning more. And what I said

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at the beginning of the show is like, there's so

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much depth to musicality, and there's so much it not

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only goes into music to learn music. You can use

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some of the tactics in so many different areas of

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life as well. So you know, there's so much ground.

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To cover within the time frame that we have.

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Let me ask you, where would you like to get

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tell me something about like what inspired you.

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Let's start with that what inspired you to begin this

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journey in music.

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It's funny I wrote down a couple of things you said.

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I was going to say to say something about but

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when you said that, when you said, I'm a teacher,

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and I still go and learn things from other teachers,

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That's how it happened to me too.

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I was teaching.

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I've been a teacher for decades and before I did

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this business, the latest one was thirteen years at a

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high school running a music program for my instrument, and

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then hiring other teachers, doing all this stuff. And I

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got to a point not long into it.

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I was a good teacher in quotes one words, than everything.

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But not long into it, I realized I can't get

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my students past a certain level.

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I don't know how it's done. And I did it

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like a lot of music teachers did it. Do it.

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Try this, that didn't work. Try that, Oh that worked

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a little bit.

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Try that.

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What are we doing?

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What this brings me to is the most exciting thing.

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How I got here because I realized I hit a ceiling.

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I didn't I have a master's degree with music, and

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I couldn't play nearly.

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As well as I should have played.

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With that amount I should be touring the world with

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the amount of work that I did.

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What and I knew? I just I had an idea.

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It wasn't talent or some magical force, but that's what

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we think it is. Brings me to exactly what I

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was thinking when you were talking about going to other teachers.

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We have something now, and we've had it well, we've

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always had it as humans, you know, have it described

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in research and science. We always wonder, and I do this,

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if if I've got a student who needs to do this,

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what should I try to get it done? We try

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it and if it doesn't really work, we try something else.

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Oh no.

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We now have the ability to know that if we

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ask someone to learn something and they do it exactly

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as we ask them to do it, which is not

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ten hours a day and hanging from the ceiling and.

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Counting a thousand cars as they drive by or whatever.

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It's nothing like that's it really takes less time.

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You got to introduce it the right way. That's kind

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of the art of teaching it.

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We know with certainty that someone will learn and when

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they come back to me and they haven't learned, well,

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it did something that wasn't what I said, so let's

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look and then we go through the process. Aha, right there.

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Oh I didn't realize that. And once you get it down,

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you're guaranteed to get it.

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Mind me of something.

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You were talking about how this applies to everything in life,

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and my wife was talking she's in.

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The financial industry, your life was.

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Talking about, Oh, it takes three months to onboard people,

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you know, and she's not talking about like financial brokers.

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And then she's talking about the people who support the brokers.

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And you know, there's a lot going on.

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You got to send emails and packages and people are

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out doing presentations. But it's not something that requires a doctorate, okay,

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and these people come in and they can learn. And

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she said it takes three months to figure out if

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they're going to do it or not. So I can

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tell you in three weeks and by the time we

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got to the third week, it would be you're not

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following directs. If you would, you'll do great and get

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all sorts of raises because going to learn to do

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it well and you're going to be wonderful.

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But if you just don't want to do it, no harm,

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no foul.

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But we'll have to shake hands and each walk different,

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different direction, and it's so much easier that way, and

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you know what you assign will work, and if you

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know enough about it, you can predict the stages people

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will go through as they learn it, and they're amazed.

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Like you said, I think this, and that's exactly what

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I thought, and I almost quit, but then I thought this,

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like you said, I.

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Would you see it enough. It all happens the same way. Folks.

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Y'all have as much talent as.

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You need, and learning works the same for everybody. You

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just get there into it.

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So that brings me to the Talent Code. I've read

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it twice. I get something out of it each time.

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I think, maybe that's just being human. So share something

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with us about with our listeners who have not read it,

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and where they can find it and tell us a

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little bit about it.

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Oh yeah, my book Cracky The Talent Code.

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There's actually another book called The.

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Talent Code, which is a good book. So that is

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the researchers will tell you, and there's papers on this.

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There's a researcher named Hardiman who's talked a lot about this.

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Is there is a gap in between the science and

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all of the rest of humanity that wants to learn,

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and we got a lot of frustrated people out there

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who want to learn and can't learn a matter how

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hard they try. I just thought of something recently. It's

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a tagline I'm going to use. Kids don't dislike school

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because they dislike learning. Kids dislike school because they dislike

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not learning. That's the problem. If you actually taught them

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all how to learn, and they all knew they would

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get everything with a small amount of work, it would

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be a totally different ballgame. And I know this because

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I will never forget walking out of my third grade

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classroom on the last day and the teacher standing at

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the door saying, you passed by the skin of your teeth.

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Words, that's the kind of student I was. I realized it.

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I didn't know how to learn.

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So in this role of an interpreter, someone who's in

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between professors don't know how to speak. Teacher researchers do

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not know how to teach. It's a graduate university with

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a select group of people.

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You do not know what it's like to go out

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into the real world and have to get people on

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board with learning.

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The people in your classes can drop out at mid

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semester if they're not doing well. I taught high school.

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No one gets to drop out. You have to have

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either you teach them or you're dealing with the parents.

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So you have to learn exactly how everything works. You

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can be confident into what you're doing. Teachers, on the

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other hand, first have too much to deal with to

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really be doing a lot of this stuff. It became

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an obsession for me like music was at one time.

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So that's what that was. And so researchers don't speak teacher.

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You just don't know how to speak the research language.

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It took forever for me to learn how to read

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studies and everything.

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So once I figured all that.

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Out and then could dive in and go deeper, the

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whole magic of the thing was how do I get

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in the middle there where I could take the best

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of the research, not the surface stuff, which is a

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lot of what you see people marketing the science. Oh, spacing,

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You should do your practice at different times, Sure you should,

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But spacing is a lot more complex and a lot

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more subtle and applicable than just that.

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It'sact the whole.

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Workshop your student's taking with you right now. The first

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four weeks is all spacing only, and it's space repetition. Anyway,

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I'm getting into something else. So I said, what am I?

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What do I need to do to get this into

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This is my superpower that I've developed, and all teachers

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should develop this. How do I make anyone understand this

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stuff so they can use it? And the answer, and

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that's what that book is. It's trying to get people

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to understand. Look at all these gateways. Here's the gateway

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to learn about talent.

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Here's what I found.

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You can go ahead and look at the research and

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see what you find all these little gateways in and

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then you can start using it, which takes a long time.

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You can find someone who can teach it. There aren't

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that many. But and I will tell you the secret teachers.

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I will tell you this secret to teaching all this stuff.

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Look at something called cognitive load theory. You have to

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reduce the amount of things your working memory pays attention

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to down to an amount it can handle, Otherwise you

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will reach too much confusion and won't learn. Well, my gosh,

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then how do people do trigonometry? Because the working memory

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only holds five to seven pieces of information, and trigonometry

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you've got to automatize all the previous knowledge and have

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it in your long term memory. The teacher has to

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find exactly what that is, exactly what can get in

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through working memory into long term memory and then start

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building that up.

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And that's what I spent my life doing.

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So there I have a few like thoughts in my

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head and I don't want to forget any of them.

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Inter Leaving and spacing, Thank you with our audience. Interleaving,

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what does that mean? And how does that relate to spacing?

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Thanks because you've gotten into an area that most everyone

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gets confused. People think, well, if you let the spacing

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needs take more breaks.

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That's part of retrieval practice. But it means change up

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what you're doing every ten minutes, which is correct.

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But that's not spacing specifically as far as I'm concerned.

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Refers and in the things I've read, refers to spaced

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repetition interleaving, and I'll explain both. Interleaving refers to interleaving.

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Your learning episodes. A learning episode.

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I think I just made that word of right now

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a learning episode, But it's how long you sit and

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work on something you know I'm gonna learn about the

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you know how congress works, Okay, I'm gonna.

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Sit there and read.

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Well, I'll do it for an hour to figure out

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out two chambers and all this stuff.

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Okay, but you don't want to do that for an hour.

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What you really want to do is do it for

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ten minutes and do something else for ten minutes, and

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then do that for ten minutes and do something else.

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You want to constantly shift what you're doing. It should

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feel uncomfortable, and you should switch before you truly understand

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what you're doing.

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I know it sounds weird. And then spacing a space repetition.

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We're used to doing ten or twenty five or thirty

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or fifty reps in a row. Look up something called

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the power law of learning. By about the third or

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fourth rep, they're almost useless. That's why we do all

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these reps and it doesn't work. What you want to

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do is do one repetition spaced out by five or

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ten minutes once and only once for about three or

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four days.

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Try that, everybody. You'll be amazed.

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So I've been playing. This is not about me, but

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I'm getting to my point. I've been playing for over

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forty five years. Not to give my age away, older

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than that. But anyway, two words you had said in

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one of your webinars or something I read problem solving. Yes,

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the light bulb went off for me personally, because it's

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no problem for me to sit and play just by heart.

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It just comes through me.

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To sit and play somebody else's music and to read

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their music. I have no problem reading, but chunking it

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in portions and segments of it and looking at it

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like a problem solving equation.

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Like for five ten minutes, my brain.

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Is completely focused. I'm not thinking about what's for dinner.

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I'm not thinking about where I have to go tomorrow,

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not thinking about who I need to call. I am

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completely there so giving myself that break of and for

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everybody maybe it's different, but that those two words problems solving,

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my brain goes.

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Ooh, you got my attention.

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What are we doing? And so that's another reason why

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I connected with you as well as I.

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Have you on the show, is because I'm learning.

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I've learned so much from you. I continue to learn

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so much from you, and just little things that you

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say and that that you've researched and that you offer

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to teach is just so like aha for me. Anyways,

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and I know you.

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Have other students too, and I'm sure they feel that way.

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In what way? What ways can students reach out to

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you to learn more about your courses?

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Oh, my website is Greg goodheart dot com. You can

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see my little logo down there. That's yes, that's right.

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That's three g's in a row.

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In the middle.

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Some poor sap is missing a G because I got

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all the g's in that naming part of the world.

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Like names Gary what everyone calls them airy because you

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know I took the G Greg goodheart dot com.

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Tons of free stuff, but it's it's kind of overall.

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Here are some books you can read here, others if

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you want specific stuff I have also, I have master

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classes that are in my shop, and I do a

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monthly practice class.

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If we want to at some point talk about that.

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That's something I invented that hasn't existed before now, and

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it's part of how you get people hooked into the learning.

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It's not enough to say, trust me, if you do this,

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you'll be good in four weeks. That's if you can

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do something in twenty minutes that most people thought used

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to take four weeks, then you've grabbed people in so

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I've invented that I do one of those every month,

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which is open to the whole world and is ridiculously cheap,

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you know, based on a lot of times when I

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get paid to travel around and talk to schools, and

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as you mentioned, this works and everything. It works in academics,

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I train teachers, I do professional development for I go

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to music departments, and I go to the academic stuff.

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So you're right, it's all over the place. So any

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of that stuff. There's areas of my website and you

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can always get in touch with me at hello at

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greg Goodheart dot com.

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Yes, this is easy to reach out to you and

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let me ask you the difference.

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And there might not be a difference, but maybe.

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For our listeners who are just tuning in and haven't

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worked with you before or know about you. I know

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you have this ongoing practic class for the next several weeks,

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and I know it's your first time putting that together.

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Is however, you.

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Have the practic class once a month, So is this like?

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Is this?

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So?

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This is this is my marketing problem. I call everything

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practice something and then and then people get it's confused.

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The practic class is different than the we have this.

359
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I have this eight week thing going. It's closed right now.

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I'll offer this is the third time I've taught it

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that and then i'll do another one sometime in the future.

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I haven't decided yet. We have a waiting list.

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You keep it on.

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That's called perfect practice, that whole eight week course. You know,

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the practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect, right,

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the old saying that I used to say all the

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time as a teacher. So that's every once in a

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while I offer a course on something. Practic class is

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a monthly meeting, and I think many of us everyone

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has a different idea what the word master class means.

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But in the music world, there's a master up on stage.

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You go up, you play your piece, and then the

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master tells you things that you and you're a teacher

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who's wonderful, but that's a master. They know things that

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you know you know, and they give you the master

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advice during that class. So it's the same format, come

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up and play. Accept the differences is I'm not gonna

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tell I don't know someone playing violin. I don't know

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how to tell you to interpret violin music barely. I'm

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a classical guitarist, but what I did say, leave that

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for the master, and leave that for your teacher. You

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can't move your fingers right right there, and you keep

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making mistakes that every time, don't you?

384
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Yep?

385
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:03.599
How do you practice it every day? I can't get it.

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I've been doing it for four weeks. That's what we

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work on. So that's the difference in every month.

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It's different people, many times that I've never met on

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instruments I've never played, and we just go straight from

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show me your problem, then I'll fix it.

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And the point is, and that's why I'm so proud

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of the practice classes.

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The point is is if it was talent that was

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holding you back for days, weeks or months, then how

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did we just fix it in twenty minutes here? And

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it's faster, easier, cleaner, much easier to play. And it

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has a certain impact on people.

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This is why.

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And I do these live when I go to schools.

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It has a certain impact. I mean they're live here,

401
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:42.519
but they're not impression, a certain impact on people when

402
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you see someone go through it and you see how

403
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is that?

404
00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:48.640
Oh that was okay? How's that? Oh my gosh? How

405
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am I playing it that fast? Here? Let's go a

406
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little faster. Oh my gosh.

407
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And when you see that, that's how it feels. That's

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how problem solving feels. The reason kids dislike schools not

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because they learning. The reason kids dislike schools because they

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dislike not learning. If you would show them how the

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problem solved in the most basic way. I'm telling you,

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and this is what goes on in the practice class.

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What happens is when you solve even the smallest problem,

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and any problem that you do not know the answer to,

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once you start working on it, is a problem for you,

416
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whatever that is. I don't care how basic or how complex.

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When you solve that, the brain releases dopamine and makes

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you happy. Yes, and then you want to do more.

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This is the key to self motivation and self efficacy,

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and it creates self esteem.

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Everyone wonders where that come from.

422
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How do create self esteem in kids get them to

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actually do things they never thought they could otherwise do

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by obeying cognitive load theory and teaching them, in very

425
00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:53.480
small ways how to do the most basic steps of

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problem solving, which is the essence of something called deliberate practice.

427
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I love it.

428
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I love it.

429
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I have to pause for a second and just apologize

430
00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:07.480
to my audience if you're hearing some background noises, and

431
00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:10.759
I know my engineer might hear too. Just a quick

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00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:13.880
about three weeks ago, my daughter and I found a

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teeny tiny kitten out on the street, and so we

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rescued her and so she's she's healthy now and she's

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finally out of confinement. And so if you hear noise

436
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:28.880
in the background, she's just having the time of her life.

437
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So I apologize for the noise. It's teeny tiny kitten.

438
00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:36.920
So but anyway back to what we're talking about. You

439
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:41.720
know what you said about the instrument and about you know,

440
00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:45.480
you play class guitar, and it doesn't matter what student,

441
00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:48.960
what instrument a student comes to you with. And for

442
00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:53.279
me personally, I work solely on I teach the piano.

443
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:56.519
I teach music theory. But I always tell my students,

444
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let me help. Let's intertwine kind of the theory and

445
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:06.160
and the foundations of learning music because it's a language

446
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:10.079
in itself. But also get to know your instrument, because

447
00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:12.880
your instrument. The more you get to know your instrument

448
00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:17.119
and how to work it out and take the steps

449
00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:20.119
you need to take, you'll find that you you can

450
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:22.160
play it smoother because.

451
00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:24.319
You tend to own the instrument and let instead of

452
00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:25.160
it owning you.

453
00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:28.440
Yes, I said very similar to that.

454
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:33.079
Yes, yeah, And so you know you had you had

455
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mentioned also with students learning.

456
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Uh fast.

457
00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:42.440
I knew. I think it was last week maybe in

458
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one of your classes you mentioned practice zen, and I

459
00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:52.000
love that because your approach to teaching someone not to

460
00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.319
give secrets away of your practice class, give them all away.

461
00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:04.680
Your micro mycro practices turn into macro because you're able

462
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:05.400
to handle it.

463
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:07.880
And it's again another lesson in life.

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The more you can manage but a problem, even if

465
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:16.000
it's a measure of music, the more you can manage it,

466
00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:18.640
the more control you have as a person. And I

467
00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:20.759
think as a human being, we all want to feel

468
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:25.720
that sense of control when we are mastering something. Right,

469
00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:30.079
So you mentioned practice zen, But then I laugh because

470
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I think of like Sesame Street, you talk about the

471
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speed monster.

472
00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:39.119
Yeah, right, So it's like, how do you practice practice

473
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zen without letting the speed monster take over? And me

474
00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:46.359
and myself, I'm working on a piece just for the

475
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:48.880
fun of it, just because I'm playing along with one

476
00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:51.599
of your classes and another teacher as well.

477
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I have to remind myself to slow down because it's

478
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like human nature. Like you've said it too. You want

479
00:22:58.519 --> 00:22:58.960
to get it.

480
00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:00.000
Done like yesterday.

481
00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:01.400
Mm hm.

482
00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:06.400
So you know, focusing on smaller segments, not for three hours,

483
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:08.400
but for five minutes here or ten minutes.

484
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:12.279
Here, three hours, just do it and bits and other

485
00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:16.119
stuff in between. Right, and if you do it that way,

486
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:17.200
you won't need three hours.

487
00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:21.319
You'll find three hours goes by pretty quick.

488
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:25.119
Well that's the zen. Yes, that's it right there. There's

489
00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:30.240
a researcher named me Hichak sent me high who spends Yes,

490
00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:34.799
this is flow. That's what that is. When time starts

491
00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:36.319
to melt off the clock of It hasn't happened to

492
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:38.680
your student and my course, yet it will because that's

493
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:41.640
what starts to happen. You brought up something very interesting.

494
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:44.519
He said, you teach the instrument. Let me be really clear.

495
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:47.079
You have to well you don't have to, but you

496
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:50.680
have to learn the instrument. That's what instrumental teachers are

497
00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:53.480
there for. They'll give you a smattering of practice advice.

498
00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:56.319
He'll give you some music theory, but they are the

499
00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:59.200
instrument expert. I cannot tell you how to hold your

500
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:01.640
finger to get to a black key when you're playing

501
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:02.519
a C nine chord.

502
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:05.079
I can't tell you exactly what you should do. You

503
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:05.839
do that.

504
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:09.880
But what we haven't done is looked at Hey, music

505
00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:12.359
theory is a separate subject. No one learns how to

506
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.240
compose and how to master music theory in a piano lessons.

507
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:16.480
In piano lessons, no.

508
00:24:16.359 --> 00:24:18.799
One learns how to play piano. In theory lessons. You

509
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:20.720
do little bits. You got to learn how to do

510
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:23.680
a one, four or five to pass your little theory

511
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:26.680
exam or whatever it is. But that's small parts. And

512
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:28.720
we've been smart enough over the last few hundred years

513
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:32.119
to separate these courses out for their own area of study.

514
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:34.720
If you want to be serious about, you know, music,

515
00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:37.680
you do several years of just music theory. Do you

516
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.200
do many years of just instrumental applied? You do years

517
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:43.759
of just ear training, a class just for ear training,

518
00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:47.079
you do years of just history. For some reason, we

519
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:50.079
have not figured out that you need a separate training

520
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:54.200
for practice for how we learn, and I have, you know,

521
00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:54.759
kind of.

522
00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:57.160
Fallen into that gap, and That's where I'm at.

523
00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.480
But we haven't figured that out yet that we can

524
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:00.480
just do it through tips and.

525
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:04.920
Tricks, and we absolve ourselves by saying, must be talent.

526
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:07.680
There's some magical force which I cannot describe, do not

527
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:08.039
know what.

528
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:10.279
It is, can't say what it's made of, can't say

529
00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:12.720
where it comes from, can't say anything about it.

530
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:14.440
Other than you'll know it when you see it.

531
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:17.200
But if the person doesn't keep getting good, then the

532
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:18.839
talent didn't realize itself.

533
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.119
And if someone's bad, and then they're a late bloomer.

534
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:25.279
No when they learn, well, they get better when they don't,

535
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:26.680
which if they're doing it randomly.

536
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:28.440
I had a great week I learned. I don't know

537
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:31.440
what I did. They have no direction. It's very hard

538
00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:33.799
to learn how to do that stuff. So it is

539
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:34.480
a separate you.

540
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:37.759
Need, Yeah, you need instrumental advice. Some of you might

541
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.400
get it from YouTube or Facebook group whatever. Teachers are

542
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.079
the best bet. They will take you through it. They

543
00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:46.920
know what you need. An instrumental teacher, which you don't

544
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:49.920
realize you need, is you need. That's why I'm gonna start.

545
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:52.519
I'm beta testing it now teacher training programs so teacher

546
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:55.880
can teachers can incorporate this into their teaching. I'm doing

547
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:58.039
one with an orchestra teacher in Milwaukee and another with

548
00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:01.839
a solo teacher who's in a orchestras huido, and I

549
00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:03.880
should be done in about a month, and then maybe

550
00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:04.640
in the new year.

551
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:06.839
I'll start offering that program. That's it.

552
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:08.160
That's great.

553
00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:11.720
Someone to teach you how to practice.

554
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:14.759
And the easiest way to do that is by starting

555
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:15.960
with deliberate practice.

556
00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:19.799
You brought up problem solving and how how do I

557
00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:21.079
get into the smallest thing?

558
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:22.839
This is how you do it right.

559
00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:25.480
I'm gonna take that down for just a second and say,

560
00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:28.359
we've all heard about deliberate practice, the ten thousand hour rule,

561
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:31.519
anders ericson the nineteen ninety three study, all of that

562
00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:33.359
stuff and the debate whether.

563
00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:34.799
There's talent and all this sort of stuff.

564
00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:35.920
We've all heard about it.

565
00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:37.720
We read books about it. How many you can do it?

566
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:39.680
Come on, you read books about it. How many you

567
00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:41.880
can do it? It's too confusing.

568
00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:44.359
What what you need to do is challenge yourself. Me and

569
00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:46.319
Ham she would always move up to another level of

570
00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:49.160
soccer before she was ready. And how does that help you,

571
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:53.880
especially especially beginners or I work with concert artists, people

572
00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:56.079
who are touring the world, and when I show them

573
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:57.680
how it really works, like, oh my gosh, I can't

574
00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:59.680
believe how much time I've been waste. I have done

575
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:03.400
this quickly, and it's so much more efficient, and I

576
00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:06.039
just you know, and we just don't.

577
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:08.640
Know how that works. So that's what you need to do.

578
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:10.960
And the way you do it is by if you

579
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:12.839
read a book about deliberate practice.

580
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:14.960
You have not reduced the cognitive loads. You're reading a

581
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:15.440
whole book.

582
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:18.039
What do you do when the rubber meets the road

583
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:20.640
when you've never done this before? Don't know if you've

584
00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:22.759
done this before, you've done some of it, because you

585
00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:24.039
wouldn't learn anything without it.

586
00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:27.559
So anything you've learned has been using arts of deliberate practice.

587
00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:28.960
You just don't know what you're doing.

588
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:29.759
What do you do?

589
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:30.519
When you sit down?

590
00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:35.200
You do this plend I'm going to play the first

591
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:39.200
four measures? Okay, Then you do it. Then you stop

592
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:41.440
and say this is what everyone leaves out to reflect

593
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:43.839
piece the lease, do it again and then again, then again?

594
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:47.559
What could be better? What just happened there?

595
00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:50.759
Don't be surprised if you don't know, even though you

596
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:53.839
were sitting right there moving your fingers on the instrument.

597
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.000
Don't be surprised if you don't know. Whenever I teach

598
00:27:57.039 --> 00:27:58.440
deliberate practice the first.

599
00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:00.839
Time to not about ninety percent other people the first

600
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:01.480
time I do it.

601
00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:03.240
So how is that? Would you just do?

602
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:06.759
Blank stare? This is how much we pay attention in practice.

603
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:08.960
And I say, wait a minute. Didn't you have the trumpet?

604
00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:11.000
You were standing right here. I could swear you had

605
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:13.400
a trumpet and you were playing. Weren't you here yet?

606
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:16.880
You have no idea what you just did? We leave

607
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:19.599
out the reflect piece to It's going to take a

608
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.000
while for a lot of people just to start finding things.

609
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:25.039
Then something's gonna happen. You're going to find six things.

610
00:28:25.480 --> 00:28:28.359
Oh my gosh, look at all these things that are wrong.

611
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:32.359
Why are you getting upset? They were never going to

612
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:35.200
get fixed unless you found them. This is a glorious,

613
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:37.880
glorious day. And since there are ways to get better

614
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:40.559
at anything, able to solve the problems, you just have

615
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:41.480
to learn how to do them.

616
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:43.759
And then look what this also does. I'm going to

617
00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:46.079
try to fix all six Well that's too many. Maybe

618
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:47.799
I should try just one. Well I went to the

619
00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:50.000
one thing. Actually there's four notes and two of them

620
00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:51.960
will maybe I should do just one. It breaks everything

621
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:53.039
down to the smallest thing.

622
00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:58.200
Now, I've taught classes of students, and then my favorite

623
00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:00.680
is teaching one on one, which I really try and

624
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:04.599
focus on more of that than anything else. And as

625
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:09.039
you know, because you've also taught classes, everyone is at

626
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:12.799
their own level. And I love your practice class that

627
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:14.400
you have going on right now because you're like, I

628
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:16.039
don't care what you practice, I don't care what you

629
00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:18.279
work on, working it for like this amount of time

630
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:21.759
and pick whatever you want. So it's like you're you're

631
00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:24.880
honoring your like meeting people where they're at, there, just

632
00:29:24.920 --> 00:29:28.119
where they're at, and saying, let's work with what you've

633
00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:31.519
got going and don't don't put a cap on it,

634
00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:34.759
don't limit it. And I think the hardest thing for

635
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:37.359
any of us, which I kind of mentioned before, is

636
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:41.200
that you know, we learn, and maybe I didn't really

637
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.240
mention this per se, but when you're practicing even like that,

638
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:49.720
those let's say three measures or four measures, it feels

639
00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:52.960
like and you did say this looking at the stairs,

640
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:55.440
and I use this terminology. If you look at like

641
00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:57.720
the whole staircase going up, you'll.

642
00:29:57.519 --> 00:29:58.480
Never get to the top.

643
00:29:58.519 --> 00:30:01.079
But if you take one step out of time, it's

644
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:03.039
gonna take as long as it's gonna take.

645
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:07.559
You can't limit yourself on you know how long?

646
00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:08.440
You know?

647
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.240
I don't know a show pen piece could take you

648
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:11.680
to play.

649
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.519
Wait, I booked a coveringhouse big for six weeks away.

650
00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:16.200
Then I showed up and I couldn't play.

651
00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:16.440
Right?

652
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:18.039
Whoever told you it was only gonna.

653
00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:18.519
Take six weeks?

654
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:19.160
Right?

655
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:23.000
That's seven not six weeks in a day? Sorry, but

656
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:25.119
I could never resist that one. How do we make

657
00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:27.240
a judgment that I should have learned it in that

658
00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:28.079
amount of time.

659
00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:30.799
Maybe it was just too darn difficult and you bid

660
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.079
off more than you can chew. Maybe you just didn't

661
00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:35.440
practice it right. Maybe you played better and you thought

662
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:35.720
you did.

663
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:40.319
Who knows, But whoever said, whoever gave you the idea

664
00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:43.160
that all the neurobiological changes that need to take place

665
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:45.680
in your brain, and you are changing your brain in

666
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:49.640
significant ways when you practice physically changing your brain, you

667
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:52.400
are whoever told you that it was gonna be six

668
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:55.160
weeks or five weeks or eight weeks. We as humans

669
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:58.200
tend to think, once we kind of get exhausted doing something,

670
00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:00.920
that we've done enough work and should have achieved something

671
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:04.559
by now, and there's no there's no reason for that really.

672
00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:10.839
And it's so gosh, it's strange, but it's reality as

673
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:13.720
a musician. And you mentioned something like this in one

674
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:17.000
of your webinars, like, and I teach this too. I'm like,

675
00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:19.880
I'm right handed, right so a lot of people are

676
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:23.799
right handed. My husband's left handed, and some people are

677
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:27.000
left handed. But for me, being a right handed, my

678
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:29.720
left handed is a little slower. So I say, it's

679
00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:31.400
the slower child. You have to have a little bit

680
00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:34.400
more patience with the left hand for my right hand people,

681
00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:39.960
but both hands. It's amazing to me how we have

682
00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:43.079
to train them. When it comes to learning the instrument.

683
00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:44.880
It's not just like okay, pick up you know, bag

684
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:46.720
of groceries and put it here and put it there.

685
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:47.960
You don't think about it.

686
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:50.079
You know, you drive a car, you just know what

687
00:31:50.119 --> 00:31:50.680
you're doing.

688
00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:55.000
But when you're playing the instrument, going back to really

689
00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:58.960
get to know your instrument but also your regions and

690
00:31:59.079 --> 00:32:02.920
knowing where you're playing and what you're playing and give

691
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:04.559
yourself that.

692
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:07.160
That permission to take as long as it's gonna take

693
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:08.359
to learn.

694
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:12.920
And what you need during those times are the ability

695
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:17.240
to come up with small problems that are real, genuine challenges.

696
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:19.759
It may only be four notes, but that are real

697
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:23.200
and then fix it. Then you move on to the

698
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:27.440
next Oh hey, all right, what's the next challenge? Oh?

699
00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:29.799
I gotta figure that out. Oh I can't believe this

700
00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:32.440
and getting worse? Well, am I ever gonna Ooh? There

701
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:35.759
it is? And then you can go ahead.

702
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:39.559
Sorry, no, So tell us mort with the amount of

703
00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:41.759
research that you've done, tell us a little bit more

704
00:32:41.799 --> 00:32:43.920
about the brain and how the brain works. Let's say,

705
00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:47.640
you know, I've practiced, maybe throughout my day. I put

706
00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:50.200
it in an hour like on and off, right, so

707
00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:51.839
at the end of my day, and I'm just focusing

708
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:52.079
on me.

709
00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:55.759
But I'm talking about general musicians who practice at the

710
00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:56.519
end of the day.

711
00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:59.680
What is our brain doing? Are we still practicing? Are

712
00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:02.240
we what we put in? Do we remember it? Do

713
00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:03.000
we retain it?

714
00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:04.359
How does that all work?

715
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:08.960
Wow? Well that's enough for about twelve books. It's interesting

716
00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:11.279
to say, as our brain, So let's just start with this.

717
00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:15.119
Whenever you do anything, you're changing your brain. It's responding

718
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:17.839
to what is going on, and if it's anything new,

719
00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:20.440
it's making adjustments as to how it deals with what

720
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:22.720
this new thing is. What it's doing is it's creating

721
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:27.759
new neural networks. It's connecting neurons to other neurons. How

722
00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:31.279
everything we think, every move we make, everything we do

723
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:34.240
is governed by neural networks.

724
00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:35.079
When I want to do.

725
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:38.079
This with my hand, okay, that's a specific neural network

726
00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:40.079
firing off. If I do this again, it's the same

727
00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:45.279
neural network firing off again. So when we're doing motor skills,

728
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:48.240
and this works for cognitive skills too, because cognitive skills

729
00:33:48.279 --> 00:33:49.759
are represented by neural network.

730
00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:52.960
So what we're doing is we're changing our brain. We're

731
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.920
trying to figure out and now it depends how much

732
00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:57.839
skill we already have. If we can.

733
00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:00.839
Already do ninety percent of what we're learning, then the

734
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:03.920
brain's already automatized those skills. That's getting it into long

735
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:05.799
term memory. You asked about what happens at the end

736
00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:06.839
of the day. What happens at the end of the

737
00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:11.440
day is sleep where memory is consolidated into long term memory.

738
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:13.559
And then you have to work on something that which

739
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:16.760
is spacing and interleaving called retrieval practice, which is something

740
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:17.519
none of us do.

741
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:18.280
None of us.

742
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:19.960
That's why we go into tests and think we're going

743
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:22.719
to get an A and end up getting a C because.

744
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:26.000
We learned the material, but we didn't do retrieval practice. Yes,

745
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:28.960
and then so what.

746
00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:30.800
You do is you change your brain that way, and

747
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:34.159
you can do it quite quickly, for instance, doing something

748
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:38.280
like contextual interference, which is what I usually start the

749
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:42.480
practice class, which is taking anything you want to play anything,

750
00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:45.320
and this works for other types of knowledge as well,

751
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:49.159
and making it different so that it becomes harder. So

752
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:51.360
the easiest way to do this that we think of

753
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:53.159
is using dotted rhythms.

754
00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:55.519
Right, we play something and then we play with the dot.

755
00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:58.480
How many are you out there at some point in

756
00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:02.440
life had someone introduce issue to the concept of dotted rhythm, right,

757
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:04.559
and you're like, oh, you have problems with that scale

758
00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:07.719
passage or with that chord progression or whatever. I want

759
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:09.679
you to try this. Try playing it with the dot

760
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:12.800
rhythm and you struggled, and what's going on? You got

761
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:14.320
better at it, We'll try this rhythm.

762
00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:14.840
We'll try that.

763
00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:17.119
You got better, and then you got better And then

764
00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:20.199
what happened? Whenever I see people, it's always the same thing. Well,

765
00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:21.679
I still do it, but it doesn't work like it

766
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:24.039
did before. Like the first couple of times I did it,

767
00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:27.360
it was amazing, like it made me way better.

768
00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:30.320
And now I do it because my teacher told me

769
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:30.719
to do it.

770
00:35:31.159 --> 00:35:34.280
How is it our teachers have never and I was

771
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:37.280
never told this a master's degree. How is it our

772
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:40.280
teachers don't tell us it's not about the rhythm, it's

773
00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:43.920
about interfering with the context until it becomes difficult. Once

774
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:46.280
you're good at the rhythms and you can just rattle

775
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:48.480
them off, they're not helping you anymore.

776
00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:50.880
No one I know ever has come up.

777
00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:53.159
In fact, I see people out there selling books on

778
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:55.480
this stuff who want to talk about buried practice and

779
00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:56.000
this and that.

780
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:59.719
They don't know the concept of desirable difficulty, which.

781
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:02.440
Is would you say, I'm sorry, you don't mean to

782
00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:07.079
interrupt you. Would you say, that's in comparison to understanding.

783
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:10.800
So what I mean by that is I want to

784
00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:14.239
I want to learn something so in order for me

785
00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:16.679
to retain it and learn it. I guess what's the

786
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:20.280
difference between I guess understanding and retaining I don't think

787
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:22.800
there's much difference. But if I want to learn something,

788
00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:26.159
I need to understand it so then I can I

789
00:36:26.199 --> 00:36:29.719
can grow with it, because if I don't understand what

790
00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:33.119
I'm doing, Like, for instance, if I'm doing, you know,

791
00:36:33.880 --> 00:36:36.280
three measures, playing three measures.

792
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:39.840
I have to kind of understand for me and my teaching.

793
00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:43.519
I want to be able to understand what steps I'm taking,

794
00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:47.519
what regions I'm in, where I'm going, because that gives

795
00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:50.039
me kind of a road map.

796
00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:54.159
To Yes, that's the first stage. You go through this

797
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:56.159
and say, I have to know where the notes are.

798
00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:58.400
The first plan is knowing where the notes. I don't

799
00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:02.280
think anyone disagrees with that first plan. I mean, once

800
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:05.000
your fingers reach the instrument right, some people say, we'll

801
00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:07.519
go home and analyze the theory. Okay, whatever, that's all

802
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:10.119
fine and good, whatever your assignment is. That there's nothing

803
00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:12.280
wrong with going home and analyzing it first, if you

804
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:14.719
have the theory skills to do so, it's not wrong

805
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:16.599
with that. Go home and just look for the hard parts,

806
00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:19.880
okay whatever, that's cool too, Or you go home.

807
00:37:19.639 --> 00:37:21.280
And just play whatever it is.

808
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:23.719
But we know that when the fingers hit the instrument,

809
00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:26.280
the plan is to get all the notes right to

810
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:29.320
what you're and you do it. Oh my gosh, the

811
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:31.440
third and fourth note I can't really get or I

812
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:33.960
don't know what region I'm in here or something like that. Okay,

813
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.119
well let me just double check. Oh okay, that's this region.

814
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:37.119
Oh oh, I thought it was this.

815
00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:37.800
Bam.

816
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:39.840
That's learning right there when you say I thought it

817
00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:40.599
was this, but now I.

818
00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:41.039
See it's this.

819
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:44.679
That is the first stage, the understanding. And here's what

820
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:47.360
you're doing. You're trying to get this stuff out of

821
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:50.280
your working memory and into your long term memory. Working

822
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:53.639
memory holds somewhere around five to seven pieces of information

823
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:55.320
at the time. It's why you forget someone's name two

824
00:37:55.360 --> 00:37:57.800
seconds after they tell you, because another couple of pieces

825
00:37:57.840 --> 00:37:58.719
of information come in.

826
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:01.239
But if you're only a to deal with that amount

827
00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:02.800
of information, how is it?

828
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:09.880
You can have discussions about vastly complex topics, whether it's music, history, politics, sports,

829
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:12.960
it doesn't matter. You can have but how is it

830
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.840
where's all that information coming from? It's stored in your

831
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:19.199
long term memory and you used a good tern there

832
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:20.719
as you're saying it, Well, I need to understand it

833
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:22.000
so I can retain it.

834
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:25.440
Retain is only the first part. The part we always

835
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:28.519
miss is retrieve. It's not enough to get it into

836
00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:28.960
your memory.

837
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:33.760
Yes, now, with retrieval, though, there's a I think there's

838
00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:36.000
a line in the sand because I could play three

839
00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:37.000
measures over and.

840
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:39.280
Over again because they're in different regions. I'm trying to

841
00:38:39.320 --> 00:38:41.480
get it or to retain it.

842
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:46.519
However, there the fine line is overpracticing those three measures

843
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:49.239
because in your one of your your practice class, the

844
00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:53.039
Saturday class, five minutes or ten minutes, and then choose

845
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:57.400
something different, right, because that's the interer leaving. So I'm

846
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:00.639
wanting to express to our listeners how important that is

847
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:05.559
because taking the focus off of that frustration you you

848
00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:09.840
you stop it, Okay, So when we get I tell

849
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:11.760
my series, if you get frustrated with a piece, you

850
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:15.480
just need to stop, because then your brain's already thinking

851
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:17.280
about is there any more ice cream in the.

852
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:20.679
That's mental fatigue. You cannot practice through mental fatigue.

853
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:24.119
But if you practice this way, not through mental fatigue,

854
00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:26.880
it's not lifting weights, you don't push through, but if

855
00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:29.840
you push to write when you get frustrated, realize that

856
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:31.760
you need a break or that you need to quit

857
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:33.920
for the day. And then if you keep doing that

858
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:36.079
over the course of days, you'll be able to go

859
00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:38.119
for an extra three or four minutes. Then you'll find

860
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:40.320
another three or four minutes and you'll find it keeps

861
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:43.239
because you're building something in the prefrontal cortex of your

862
00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:47.880
brain that governs your ability control yourself and focus that hard.

863
00:39:48.119 --> 00:39:51.280
It's a developable skill, so you have to learn how

864
00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:53.360
to focus this. I don't care if you're practicing thirty

865
00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:54.559
minutes a day and you do this and you can

866
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:57.280
only go five. You made more progress in those five

867
00:39:57.320 --> 00:39:59.760
minutes than you used to in your thirty I promise.

868
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:01.119
You that, and go ahead.

869
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:05.159
No, you you had mentioned I think it was Saturday's

870
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:08.000
class about going to the gym and working out like you.

871
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:10.239
You're not going to be looking like the Hulk after

872
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:12.000
you know, two hours of one workout.

873
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:16.280
You just have to be consistent with repetition of practicing

874
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:19.039
of working out and be okay with that.

875
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:22.480
But I like the gym. You can have small victories

876
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:25.199
every day where you literally can do things that you

877
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:28.480
couldn't do before. Just because it's not play something the

878
00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:31.280
way this great artist played it. It's I couldn't even

879
00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:33.320
get through the first four measures in time. Now I

880
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:36.719
can trust me. That will make you feel great. Then

881
00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:38.960
the next day I'm doing more. I'm doing more, and

882
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:41.119
before you know it, Oh, I learned the whole piece.

883
00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:42.079
How about that?

884
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:46.760
What's your what's your advice or suggestions. I'll try and

885
00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:50.280
be brief on this. So let's say we're playing, Okay,

886
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:54.039
I'm working on a nocturne by Billy Joel. Right, it's

887
00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:58.559
it's it jumps from you know, from different regions on

888
00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:02.320
the keyboard and so so it's a beautiful piece. My

889
00:41:02.440 --> 00:41:08.079
point is is I just went blank the timing, Okay,

890
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:12.400
the dynamics when we're practicing portions of the song. And

891
00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:13.960
this is not just for me. This is for the

892
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:19.199
listeners who are musicians and who are students as well.

893
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:21.039
You talk about and I talk about it too when

894
00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:23.400
I teach. Don't worry about the dynamics, don't worry about

895
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:25.480
the timing. Just find out where your steps off, find

896
00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:29.960
out where you're dancing, find out where you're going. But

897
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:32.519
then when do you bring in the timing and do

898
00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:36.920
you suggest timing is just follow it like buy the

899
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:40.159
book or for me, I'm like, let's put a little

900
00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:42.840
of your dynamics in there, or do you feel like

901
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:46.039
the dynamics that the composer has put in there is

902
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:47.800
just like that's got to be that way.

903
00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:52.119
This is an area of great controversy, especially in classical music,

904
00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:55.480
which is what I studied, but all over the place. Oh,

905
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:57.760
if you're going to do repetitions, do them with the

906
00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:01.159
feeling and do them with their understand where that's coming from.

907
00:42:01.159 --> 00:42:02.360
Now, who's giving you that advice?

908
00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:05.760
Someone who's automatized the skills of a thousand different shapes

909
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:06.559
of crescendos.

910
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:08.400
Someone who's played.

911
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:10.400
For so long that their fingers are not Yes, I

912
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:13.280
can cite read things and make them sound decent the

913
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:15.840
first time I see them. That's a rising line, I'll

914
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:19.760
throw in a little swell and it'll sound. But I've

915
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:24.000
got I've been doing forty years of formal study to

916
00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:28.480
do this. So this advice that we're getting is well meaning,

917
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:32.639
but it's too much cognitive load. If you can't play

918
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:34.800
the notes, how the heck are you going to control

919
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:35.920
your dynamics?

920
00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:36.760
I love that.

921
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:38.519
Yeah, So most of.

922
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:41.360
Us are at a level where I don't care what

923
00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:45.039
it is. You first need to play the notes. Now

924
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:47.960
here's the thing. It's not the most elegant saying, but

925
00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:52.199
interpretation is a technique first, or it won't exist last.

926
00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:54.159
Okay, So now you go.

927
00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:56.360
To your interpretation, and how do we teach it because

928
00:42:56.440 --> 00:42:59.679
I taught it this way for a long long time.

929
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:03.599
Percendo there, no, no, no, get louder there, yes, yes, feel it.

930
00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:06.440
Oh here, now do this and you get it shaped

931
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:08.800
up just right and it's nice, and say there, play

932
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:10.840
it that way, okay, cool, let's go on.

933
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:13.320
Now. The next week they come in, they don't do it. Well,

934
00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:15.639
I thought I was doing it, That's what they always say.

935
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:18.119
I thought I was doing it, and you do think

936
00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:19.639
you're doing it. They're being very honest.

937
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:22.079
What we don't do is say, wow, you don't know

938
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:24.239
how to control a crescendo. Why am I trying to

939
00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:26.960
get you to do a crescendo over and over again

940
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:29.559
here in a lesson and you're not in full control. I,

941
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:33.599
as the teacher, say, whoa, let's back off, let's do this.

942
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:37.760
Maybe let's take this thing and play it.

943
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:40.079
With a day crescendo. Then let's do a swell.

944
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:43.239
Then let's do every other note really loud, then, and

945
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:45.760
let's do all these little bits of contextual interference that

946
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:48.960
give us greater dynamic control. Depending on where the student

947
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:52.320
was at, I might say, listen, go home and play

948
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:54.679
you your two octave scales and try to play the

949
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:56.920
first note as quiet as possible, the last note as

950
00:43:56.960 --> 00:43:59.280
loud as possible, and be even through all of them.

951
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:01.760
I would do it as a technique first, then you

952
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:04.960
can layer it in. It's kind of like this, if

953
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:07.920
you're teaching a kid who recently learned to walk to

954
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:10.960
dribble of basketball, you don't do both at the same time,

955
00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:13.280
Or to walk and dribble of basketball, you don't do

956
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:14.079
both at the same time.

957
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:17.360
Walk better at walking, then you do dribbling by itself.

958
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:20.360
Then you do it together because you have to automatize

959
00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:23.360
both skills before you bring them together. The problem with

960
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:26.119
this old advice, which is well meaning, I understand exactly

961
00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:29.920
where it's coming from. It's for people with higher level

962
00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:32.880
skills than most of us are at yet. Because I

963
00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:35.119
was getting this advice as like a freshman in college

964
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:37.400
and I just started reading music the year before. I

965
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:40.960
was a self taught rock and roll guitar player, Like, really, really,

966
00:44:41.079 --> 00:44:44.159
you want me to play I don't have enough control yet.

967
00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:47.000
Then you can layer the other things in when you

968
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:49.480
get other skills and you do more crescendos and you

969
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:51.239
do more things like that that you're mute at.

970
00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:52.920
Lisa just so you know, when you get.

971
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:56.760
More more skills, then you can layer the other the

972
00:44:56.840 --> 00:44:59.239
other shore, then you can layer the other stuff in.

973
00:44:59.480 --> 00:45:02.199
This is to the Dunning Kruger effect where people with

974
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:04.559
higher level skills. You have to be really careful with this.

975
00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:06.719
When you're a teacher, especially if you have really high

976
00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:09.960
level skills, you will assume knowledge in your student that

977
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:12.840
isn't there, and that's the kiss of death for learning.

978
00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:16.519
They try and try and try and try and not

979
00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:18.440
be able to do it and feel like they don't

980
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:20.719
have talent. Right, all of us teachers have an out

981
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:24.159
in music, Well, you just didn't have enough talent. That's

982
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:24.760
not it.

983
00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:27.639
Anyone can do anything, and you have to start at

984
00:45:27.639 --> 00:45:30.880
a level at where at which we can handle it,

985
00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:32.559
and most of us want to start it a higher one.

986
00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:35.480
Yes, yes too.

987
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:39.639
Until you've autotized the skills. That's separation of the two.

988
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:43.800
Until you've automatized the skills, do one or the other.

989
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.800
In fact, some people might want to take this advice. Listen,

990
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:48.719
if you're trying to learn something really really hard and

991
00:45:48.760 --> 00:45:50.400
you haven't been playing that long, why don't you try

992
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:52.599
and learn in two or three easy pieces with crescendos

993
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:54.880
and day crescendos and do that and get those skills

994
00:45:54.920 --> 00:45:57.400
going where the cognitive load is lower so that you

995
00:45:57.400 --> 00:45:59.000
can go into the other thing.

996
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:02.159
Go ahead, go ahead, and.

997
00:46:02.119 --> 00:46:05.599
Please we're just about at a time and I could

998
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:07.960
talk to you for another hour, and there's so much

999
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:11.840
to talk about. Please tell us again for our listeners,

1000
00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:16.000
how can students get in touch with you and how

1001
00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:18.239
can they learn more about your your classes?

1002
00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:19.039
Yeah?

1003
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:22.880
At dot com uh d R E G G G

1004
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:26.280
O O D H A R T and uh there's

1005
00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:27.800
like a free thing there that I'll show you how

1006
00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:29.599
to do dot and rhythms, catual in reference.

1007
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:31.800
It'll make you better at something you're struggling with now.

1008
00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:34.599
It's free. Actually a bunch of free stuff on there.

1009
00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:37.119
There's classes for sale, there's all sorts of stuff.

1010
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:38.119
And you can always get in touch with me at

1011
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:40.440
hello at breag goodheart dot com.

1012
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:42.840
Well great, thank you so much for being on the

1013
00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:48.199
show today. I'm all about keeping music alive and and

1014
00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:51.480
being an inspiration for our students.

1015
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:53.119
And I had to add.

1016
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:54.960
That I wrote that when you said at the beginning,

1017
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:57.039
I wrote that down you said, keep music alive. I

1018
00:46:57.039 --> 00:46:59.440
will make this very quick. You want to keep music alive. Folks,

1019
00:46:59.559 --> 00:47:02.519
Stop letting kids quit because they don't get it. Keep

1020
00:47:02.559 --> 00:47:05.760
them in there because they do get it. Not forcing

1021
00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:08.760
them they'll want to be there when they actually learn.

1022
00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:10.360
That'll help keep music alive.

1023
00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:13.280
Love it well. Thank you so much, Greg, We will

1024
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:18.800
be in touch. And again to our listeners, thank you

1025
00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:22.880
for being part of our show today. And you know

1026
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.719
how to get in touch with Greg and you're not

1027
00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:28.800
hard to find. Great good heart, you get the three gee's.

1028
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:32.119
So thank you so much, Greg, and I will see

1029
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:32.719
you soon.

1030
00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:35.360
Thanks, see you soon, Okay.

1031
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:37.719
Take care. Thank you so much for tuning in today,

1032
00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:41.519
and I would like to end our show with a

1033
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:47.639
little piano playing. We have about a minute left. If

1034
00:47:47.719 --> 00:47:50.400
you are a student of music, if you're interested in

1035
00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:56.000
taking lessons, Greg has been a great inspiration to me

1036
00:47:56.360 --> 00:47:59.719
and I know you will enjoy learning from him as well.

1037
00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:07.360
Please help keep music alive.